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	<title>Comments on: Is this a Christian creed?</title>
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	<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/</link>
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		<title>By: The Pilgrim</title>
		<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-68398</link>
		<dc:creator>The Pilgrim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 17:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://silouanthompson.net/?p=1304#comment-68398</guid>
		<description>As far as creeds go, it is no more than lukewarm, and we all know what happens to lukewarm, don&#039;t we.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as creeds go, it is no more than lukewarm, and we all know what happens to lukewarm, don&#8217;t we.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-30832</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2011 05:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://silouanthompson.net/?p=1304#comment-30832</guid>
		<description>No, it is not. All fine and nice sentiments about God, the Church, and all, but little else.

For example, &quot;Although He died, He is living today&quot; is a far cry -- as far as actual MEANING goes -- not only from the stern, unequivocal words of the Nicene Creed, but also from St. Paul&#039;s harsh &quot;If Christ is not raised from the dead, our faith is in vain.&quot; &quot;He is living today&quot; carries about as much credal punch as does calling Shakespeare &quot;The Immortal Bard&quot;.

@Kester, you offer a fair point, but one that raises the attendant point, if this took actual thought and effort, what kind of horrible job are these kids&#039; teachers doing in passing on the faith? And even at best, doesn&#039;t this still give the message that you can call yourself a Christian while professing only the vaguest faith in Christ? With the blessing of the bishop, no less?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it is not. All fine and nice sentiments about God, the Church, and all, but little else.</p>
<p>For example, &#8220;Although He died, He is living today&#8221; is a far cry &#8212; as far as actual MEANING goes &#8212; not only from the stern, unequivocal words of the Nicene Creed, but also from St. Paul&#8217;s harsh &#8220;If Christ is not raised from the dead, our faith is in vain.&#8221; &#8220;He is living today&#8221; carries about as much credal punch as does calling Shakespeare &#8220;The Immortal Bard&#8221;.</p>
<p>@Kester, you offer a fair point, but one that raises the attendant point, if this took actual thought and effort, what kind of horrible job are these kids&#8217; teachers doing in passing on the faith? And even at best, doesn&#8217;t this still give the message that you can call yourself a Christian while professing only the vaguest faith in Christ? With the blessing of the bishop, no less?</p>
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		<title>By: Kester</title>
		<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-10163</link>
		<dc:creator>Kester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:29:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://silouanthompson.net/?p=1304#comment-10163</guid>
		<description>I guess I would ask this:  Which is worse, to repeat a creed you neither hear nor understand or this creed which, I assume, took actual effort and involvement by those who participated in its creation?  

Or, did the creation of this creed further their limited understanding of the traditional creeds and/or God?

Regardless, I wouldn&#039;t say it liturgically.  It does smack quite a bit of &quot;Buddy Jesus.&quot;  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I would ask this:  Which is worse, to repeat a creed you neither hear nor understand or this creed which, I assume, took actual effort and involvement by those who participated in its creation?  </p>
<p>Or, did the creation of this creed further their limited understanding of the traditional creeds and/or God?</p>
<p>Regardless, I wouldn&#8217;t say it liturgically.  It does smack quite a bit of &#8220;Buddy Jesus.&#8221;  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Trevr</title>
		<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-9952</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 11:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://silouanthompson.net/?p=1304#comment-9952</guid>
		<description>I see no problem with the creed as it is written by kids. Kids, you&#039;ll remember, don&#039;t have your fine theological knowledge. When adults do the &#039;hokey pokey&#039; in church, we might worry!

I suppose people are turned off by that &#039;burn in hell&#039; kind of chrisitianity, preached by conservative protestant reactionaries... non-orthodox churches are stuck with the doctrine of original sin. This makes God seem (to me) angry and unjust, stubborn, wrathful and unloving. Who wants to know a god like that? Original sin is bad news, it needs to be swept under the carpet. Just mention the nice stuff, and the pews will be filled.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see no problem with the creed as it is written by kids. Kids, you&#8217;ll remember, don&#8217;t have your fine theological knowledge. When adults do the &#8216;hokey pokey&#8217; in church, we might worry!</p>
<p>I suppose people are turned off by that &#8216;burn in hell&#8217; kind of chrisitianity, preached by conservative protestant reactionaries&#8230; non-orthodox churches are stuck with the doctrine of original sin. This makes God seem (to me) angry and unjust, stubborn, wrathful and unloving. Who wants to know a god like that? Original sin is bad news, it needs to be swept under the carpet. Just mention the nice stuff, and the pews will be filled.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Bauman</title>
		<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-9937</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bauman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 May 2010 18:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://silouanthompson.net/?p=1304#comment-9937</guid>
		<description>The Nicene Creed is a direct powerful statement about the personal triune nature of God, the Incarnation and the eschaton.  Of course it is inadequate, but isn&#039;t that rather like saying a picture of St. Seraphim with a bear is not an icon?  

The statemement is not really about God at all is it?  It is about a certain type of human feeling .  It denies the personal reality of God.  The Incarnation is not really present, and The Comoforter as Casper the friendly ghost?   

OK as an exercise in helping children begin to understand the nature of God, maybe but as a Creed--no.  For adults especially in the context of the Episcopal milleau--no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Nicene Creed is a direct powerful statement about the personal triune nature of God, the Incarnation and the eschaton.  Of course it is inadequate, but isn&#8217;t that rather like saying a picture of St. Seraphim with a bear is not an icon?  </p>
<p>The statemement is not really about God at all is it?  It is about a certain type of human feeling .  It denies the personal reality of God.  The Incarnation is not really present, and The Comoforter as Casper the friendly ghost?   </p>
<p>OK as an exercise in helping children begin to understand the nature of God, maybe but as a Creed&#8211;no.  For adults especially in the context of the Episcopal milleau&#8211;no.</p>
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		<title>By: Silouan</title>
		<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-9918</link>
		<dc:creator>Silouan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 17:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://silouanthompson.net/?p=1304#comment-9918</guid>
		<description>I see your point. What bothers me about this creed is its lack of substance. The Nicene Creed was written for the express purpose of excluding Arians from baptism or ordination, so it intentionally sets out some benchmarks; it says, &quot;Believe what you will, but here are a few hard and immovable facts with which not everyone will agree.&quot; Its bare-minimum confession served to unite the Church (its Greek name, &quot;the Symbol of the Faith&quot; uses &lt;i&gt;symbol&lt;/i&gt; in its original meaning of somehting which really does bring together separate things into a genuine union.)

This fluffy confession leaves out anything uncomfortable, difficult, demanding. It reminds me of a liberal Protestant pastor I once heard answering questions from inquirers. Most of the questions were excellent ones about ethics or dogma or paradoxes, and any or all could have opened a topic about salvation, sanctification, and pursuing God. But he answered every question with a smooth, comfortable pat answer; his goal wasn&#039;t to help anyone struggle, but to make each listener glad they were a member of such a warm and wise group.

Maybe it&#039;s just me, but this seems to me like a declawed Gospel, not well-suited either to offend or to save anyone from his sins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point. What bothers me about this creed is its lack of substance. The Nicene Creed was written for the express purpose of excluding Arians from baptism or ordination, so it intentionally sets out some benchmarks; it says, &#8220;Believe what you will, but here are a few hard and immovable facts with which not everyone will agree.&#8221; Its bare-minimum confession served to unite the Church (its Greek name, &#8220;the Symbol of the Faith&#8221; uses <i>symbol</i> in its original meaning of somehting which really does bring together separate things into a genuine union.)</p>
<p>This fluffy confession leaves out anything uncomfortable, difficult, demanding. It reminds me of a liberal Protestant pastor I once heard answering questions from inquirers. Most of the questions were excellent ones about ethics or dogma or paradoxes, and any or all could have opened a topic about salvation, sanctification, and pursuing God. But he answered every question with a smooth, comfortable pat answer; his goal wasn&#8217;t to help anyone struggle, but to make each listener glad they were a member of such a warm and wise group.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s just me, but this seems to me like a declawed Gospel, not well-suited either to offend or to save anyone from his sins.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean+ Lotz</title>
		<link>http://silouanthompson.net/2010/05/is-this-a-christian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-9906</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean+ Lotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 May 2010 19:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://silouanthompson.net/?p=1304#comment-9906</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see anything to criticize, except its inadequacy. The Nicene Creed is inadequate. All statements about God are inadequate. I criticize them all. I certainly would not allow liturgical use of this piece, but as an exercize it seems quite on the mark. Keeping in mind its incompleteness and inadequacy. 

I realize that the implied answer to the question which the title of this post asks is &quot;No,&quot; but I don&#039;t see it. 

I recognize the belief/attitude which says, &quot;Because X is good, then nothing which is similar to X but is not X can be good.&quot; The Nicene Creed is good; ergo, anything which is similar to it but not it, which does not accomplish exactly what it accomplishes, which does not begin and end with its precise concerns, can be good. But that seems rather nonsense to me. It reminds me of the objection I once heard from an Orthodox gentleman to a painting of St. Seraphim of Sarov in the woods with a bear. &quot;It&#039;s not a proper icon. An icon should....&quot; Yeah, yeah. But this isn&#039;t an icon, you numskull. It is something different, and quite valid in its own right. The problem was not with the non-icon which failed to follow even one of the conventions of Byzantine iconography. Goodness! It didn&#039;t even say &quot;St Seraphim of Sarov&quot; near his head, nor did it say &quot;Bear&quot; near the head of that worthy creature. The problem was his ability to admit that the art painting could be used legitimately to produce something other than icons. In criticizing the painting by iconographic standards, his criticism was meaningless and irrelevant. 

I criticize it most, by the way, because, &quot;BFFL&quot; notwithstanding, it obviously was not written by students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see anything to criticize, except its inadequacy. The Nicene Creed is inadequate. All statements about God are inadequate. I criticize them all. I certainly would not allow liturgical use of this piece, but as an exercize it seems quite on the mark. Keeping in mind its incompleteness and inadequacy. </p>
<p>I realize that the implied answer to the question which the title of this post asks is &#8220;No,&#8221; but I don&#8217;t see it. </p>
<p>I recognize the belief/attitude which says, &#8220;Because X is good, then nothing which is similar to X but is not X can be good.&#8221; The Nicene Creed is good; ergo, anything which is similar to it but not it, which does not accomplish exactly what it accomplishes, which does not begin and end with its precise concerns, can be good. But that seems rather nonsense to me. It reminds me of the objection I once heard from an Orthodox gentleman to a painting of St. Seraphim of Sarov in the woods with a bear. &#8220;It&#8217;s not a proper icon. An icon should&#8230;.&#8221; Yeah, yeah. But this isn&#8217;t an icon, you numskull. It is something different, and quite valid in its own right. The problem was not with the non-icon which failed to follow even one of the conventions of Byzantine iconography. Goodness! It didn&#8217;t even say &#8220;St Seraphim of Sarov&#8221; near his head, nor did it say &#8220;Bear&#8221; near the head of that worthy creature. The problem was his ability to admit that the art painting could be used legitimately to produce something other than icons. In criticizing the painting by iconographic standards, his criticism was meaningless and irrelevant. </p>
<p>I criticize it most, by the way, because, &#8220;BFFL&#8221; notwithstanding, it obviously was not written by students.</p>
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