Comments on: What did Christ do for us? http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/what-christ-did/ Why a nice Protestant guy became Orthodox... Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:41:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Sean+ Lotz http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/what-christ-did/comment-page-1/#comment-1532 Sean+ Lotz Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:50:32 +0000 http://silouanthompson.net/?p=672#comment-1532 Clint, it seems there is a difference between "divine satisfaction," i.e. a price due to God, and, as Athanasius says, "settling man's account with death." The language treats it as if there were a debt owe-able to death itself. Death it is which holds us in thrall, not God. To make the language perhaps more figurative, it is Satan who holds us hostage, not God. The one you have to pay ransom to is the bad guy. But Silouan himself will say it better. Clint, it seems there is a difference between “divine satisfaction,” i.e. a price due to God, and, as Athanasius says, “settling man’s account with death.” The language treats it as if there were a debt owe-able to death itself. Death it is which holds us in thrall, not God. To make the language perhaps more figurative, it is Satan who holds us hostage, not God. The one you have to pay ransom to is the bad guy.
But Silouan himself will say it better.

]]> By: Clint http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/what-christ-did/comment-page-1/#comment-1424 Clint Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:21:09 +0000 http://silouanthompson.net/?p=672#comment-1424 I guess I don't understand you said... "An Orthodox take on that would be that there isn’t really any price to be paid, no divine satisfaction required." And you quote... "About 318 AD, Athanasius of Alexandria wrote an excellent article called On the Incarnation of the Word of God to answer the question “What did Christ accomplish?” " But in Athanasius's article he says this... "But beyond all this, there was a debt owing which must needs be paid ; for, as I said before, all men were due to die. Here, then, is the second reason why the Word dwelt among us, namely that having proved His Godhead by His works, He might offer the sacrifice on behalf of all, surrendering His own temple to death in place of all, to settle man's account with death and free him from the primal transgression." I read in his statement that we have a debt we owe. I guess my question is who do YOU or Orthodox believe the debt Athanasius's speaks about is owed to whom? You use the following as examples to talk about the "consequence" that God told Adam about... "God gave Adam a warning about disobedience — it’ll cause death in you. Like “Don’t jump off the roof or you’ll break your leg” or “Don’t look into the laser or it’ll blind you.” It’s not a crime-and-pubishment thing, it’s a warning about consequences." Those examples could be something I would tell a friend, as though it doesn't affect me or better put isn't against me. As if it's not MY consequence but someone else's. I might say, "Billy, don't jump off the roof or you'll break your leg", but if Billy jumps that doesn't affect me and it wasn't my consequence. I guess I don't understand who's consequence did Billy fulfull? I would say that your take on God is that our decision wasn't against Him. We were NOT breaking His rule or commandment. If we did, then we have to pay His price. Right? If my mom says, "Clint don't take any cookies or you'll get punished." If I take a cookie, then I have to pay the price my mom set, which is her punishment, right? I guess in short, you make it seem that the consequence of eating from the tree was or is bigger than God. As though God is letting Adam know that there is this rule that if you eat of the Tree of Knowledge you'll die...as if there was a LARGER rule giver than God... help me with this please... I guess I don’t understand you said…
“An Orthodox take on that would be that there isn’t really any price to be paid, no divine satisfaction required.”

And you quote…
“About 318 AD, Athanasius of Alexandria wrote an excellent article called On the Incarnation of the Word of God to answer the question “What did Christ accomplish?” ”

But in Athanasius’s article he says this…
“But beyond all this, there was a debt owing which must needs be paid ; for, as I said before, all men were due to die. Here, then, is the second reason why the Word dwelt among us, namely that having proved His Godhead by His works, He might offer the sacrifice on behalf of all, surrendering His own temple to death in place of all, to settle man’s account with death and free him from the primal transgression.”

I read in his statement that we have a debt we owe. I guess my question is who do YOU or Orthodox believe the debt Athanasius’s speaks about is owed to whom?

You use the following as examples to talk about the “consequence” that God told Adam about…
“God gave Adam a warning about disobedience — it’ll cause death in you. Like “Don’t jump off the roof or you’ll break your leg” or “Don’t look into the laser or it’ll blind you.” It’s not a crime-and-pubishment thing, it’s a warning about consequences.”

Those examples could be something I would tell a friend, as though it doesn’t affect me or better put isn’t against me. As if it’s not MY consequence but someone else’s. I might say, “Billy, don’t jump off the roof or you’ll break your leg”, but if Billy jumps that doesn’t affect me and it wasn’t my consequence. I guess I don’t understand who’s consequence did Billy fulfull? I would say that your take on God is that our decision wasn’t against Him. We were NOT breaking His rule or commandment. If we did, then we have to pay His price. Right? If my mom says, “Clint don’t take any cookies or you’ll get punished.” If I take a cookie, then I have to pay the price my mom set, which is her punishment, right?

I guess in short, you make it seem that the consequence of eating from the tree was or is bigger than God. As though God is letting Adam know that there is this rule that if you eat of the Tree of Knowledge you’ll die…as if there was a LARGER rule giver than God…

help me with this please…

]]> By: Sean+ Lotz http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/what-christ-did/comment-page-1/#comment-1417 Sean+ Lotz Sun, 19 Apr 2009 03:25:22 +0000 http://silouanthompson.net/?p=672#comment-1417 Thanks for this essay, Silouan. It is perhaps the most accessible concise treatment of the subject I have run across. Thanks for this essay, Silouan. It is perhaps the most accessible concise treatment of the subject I have run across.

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